Interview with Dr. Katie Eagle about her work both in a traditional clinic and in her private practice to provide holistic, integrative care to her patients and clients.
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Ep 97 Holistc Care in and out of a Traditional Clinic with Katie Eagle
Cynthia: [00:00:00] Hey, it’s Cynthia, and I am so excited for you to hear this conversation between me and Dr. Katie Eagle she is a pediatric nurse practitioner at New Kingdom Healthcare. She’s also a board certified lactation consultant on staff, so she gets to share of her own insight into what makes New Kingdom healthcare different. They’re this traditional healthcare model in a clinic setting. They use insurance providers, and yet they take this holistic approach. And so that is something unique that she gets to experience as both a patient and a provider.
And she also shares her own personal journey, recognizing that the Western healthcare system as it stands wasn’t able to support her husband in the way that he needed So she started her own exploration figuring out some other modalities that might support him, and after some [00:01:00] success, she realized that this is something she wanted to provide to her own patients.
Because these Eastern practices, or, non-Western American practices are not accepted by insurance companies yet, yet, she started her own practice called Waning Moon Wellness. And so under this other umbrella, she gets to practice, that holistic care using some healing modalities and tools to.
Help her patients understand their wellbeing and their health path. in a way that the Western healthcare system might not be able to. And so we talk about how it is working in the clinical setting with her, also the private practice setting with her. And we kind of dream together about what the future of healthcare can look like.
If insurance companies embraced this integrative model, how this can allow each unique [00:02:00] individual to truly have the individualized and personalized healthcare journey that they deserve. And thankfully, we’ve got Katie Eagle doing the work to dance the line between these two worlds to bring them together in our own way.
Because New Kingdom Healthcare does accept insurance and has these contracts. I do wanna emphasize that while the first part of this podcast episode, Katie is representing New Kingdom Healthcare and their philosophies in the later part of the podcast we kind of shift gears and talk about her private practice.
And so I do want to put out a disclaimer that. The beliefs and the philosophies that her business waning Moon operates under aren’t representative of the same beliefs modalities, pathways that New Kingdom Healthcare advocates for
I’m really excited for you to be able to sit back and listen. [00:03:00] Really insightful conversation. I hope you enjoy.
Cynthia: Hello and welcome back to the Well Connected Twin Cities Podcast. As you know, this quarter, our focus is on family care and a clinic that really comes to mind when we talk about family care is New Kingdom Healthcare. Since they do take a more holistic approach, they’re a little more access. No matter what your beliefs are around healthcare, one of the pediatric nurse practitioners at New [00:04:00] Kingdom Healthcare is Dr. Katie Eagle. She is also a board certified lactation consultant, regenerative health practitioner and clinical iridologist, and she also has her own holistic practice called Waning Moon. So welcome, Katie. I’m so happy to
Katie: have you here. Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m excited to be here.
Cynthia: Perfect. Well, I know you’ve been at New Kingdom, but how long have you been there? What was your journey to get there? Tell us a little more about your
Katie: story. Yeah. I’ve been at New Kingdom for six years and I was pregnant at the time and I was looking for a clinic to bring my son, and I really couldn’t find something that resonated with me, so I just kept looking and I was talking to friends and I heard about this grassroots clinic that was really open-minded and.
Respectful to parents’ wishes, you know, a clinic that uses evidence-based care and uses best practice, but really integrates, the integrative, holistic, [00:05:00] approach. And so, that’s how I met Dr. Bob Zac. And I think my interview might have been at my newborn’s, you know, two week check or something.
And so that’s what brought me to New Kingdom was just finding someplace that I could call home and, where I I could, bring my family.
Cynthia: Hmm. Beautiful. So you were there as a, patient initially. Awesome. So how long were you a patient there before you became one of their
Oh, right away. . Yeah. I had, I had my maternity leave and then I started at New Kingdom as a provider. ,
Cynthia: you’re like, I’m in . Yeah,
Katie: I’m here. It just resonates and I was just so happy with the, Hmm. So it sounds like
Cynthia: you appreciated the care, appreciated how you can come with your own ideas your own values.
Really, you can come with your own values, and the providers were respectful of that. They were able to guide you and support you as a practitioner [00:06:00] on the other side as well. I’m curious what’s different about working at New Kingdom versus working in a more typical clinic setting?
Katie: That’s a good question.
So we start with evidence-based care. You know, we practice best practice, but then we have this opportunity to meet the patient where they’re at. And that’s really unique because having that autonomy to really be authentic with patients, , is really what fuels me because that allows me to understand where their journey is and then meet them there, be their cheerleader, support them, and really help patients to tease out.
Cultural care versus evidence-based care and really integrative medicine because some recommendations are pretty cultural with parenting and pediatrics. And so really finding what’s important to each individual family and getting that really personalized approach is different.
Cynthia: That’s amazing. So being able to recognize that in the medical system, it isn’t [00:07:00] one size fits all, it’s every individual gets to have their unique experience and the provider is there to really help them define that, to clarify that, and then to pursue that. Yeah. I. Perfect. And you know, in your work with New Kingdom a question comes to mind in this setting.
You know, what else is different? So there’s the philosophical difference, but you know, is it also longer appointments? What’s the process like for bringing patients in?
Katie: That is pretty similar as far as , the process of getting in, you know, you call, you make your appointments.
We’ve got the online booking. Some of my visits are longer as a lactation consultant, so I get to spend extra time with moms and babies, which is just such a sacred time to be with the new moms. And so I do get a little extra time with those.
Cynthia: Hmm. Yeah. But it’s nothing that would seem unfamiliar [00:08:00] on the outside.
Right. Walking into the clinic, there’s a familiarity, an ease of knowing what’s next, but then it’s with that patient provider interaction that you notice that difference. Yeah,
Katie: exactly. Yeah.
Cynthia: So you wear multiple hats at the clinic? Yes. So you are a nurse practitioner and also you are a lactation consultant.
So what does that look like, those two different roles?
Katie: It is very, it’s very unique to have the two skill sets because it allows me to diagnose. You know, lactation consultants can be RNs, they can be doulas, they can be lactation consultants alone. And having the two skillsets really allows me to hone in on what’s going on with baby.
And so if there’s a tongue tie, a lip tie, a cheek tie, I can diagnose it and get the family set up with the dentist or with the e N t or with the speech therapist. I can make the referrals, I can do the suck training and that Allows the family to kind of get their, their ducks in the rows, but also get a little bit of one stop, well, not really, cause you still have to go to other places.
Cynthia: Sounds like, you have the understanding of what’s in your scope and [00:11:00] what isn’t, and you know how to make the right referrals.
Katie: Yes. Make the right referrals. And get them to where they need to be. I think the hard thing is, is that a lot of moms and, and dads, you know, they’re in the hospital and they, they might get told there’s no tongue tie or lip tie.
And, and it’s hard because as a pediatrician and as a nurse practitioner, we don’t have that skillset to do oral exams for lactation. Mm. But I have that skillset to do the full oral exam, look at the physical of the tongue, and look at the functional of the tongue and help tease out if this is going to be something that’s gonna impact mom’s breastfeeding journey.
And so that is really something that’s special to me because then I get to help protect mom’s breastfeeding goals. And as a lactation consultant, I see moms and dads do their two week visit, they’re one month, their two month, the four month, the six month. And so while I’m doing well visits, I’m also checking on a mom and seeing.
Are her nursing goals protected and promoted? What can we do to support her? And so [00:12:00] I’m there with moms and dads. Well, mom might be going to work outside the home. What supports could she need at that point? You know, or traveling or, you know, whatever comes up in the breastfeeding journey. I get to be there for the long haul. I think it’s just really special to be the provider and then also the lactation consultants because I really get to know the families
and be their cheerleader. All the things that are coming up with having a new baby.
Cynthia: Yeah. And I feel like I keep hearing this theme of, in the postpartum stage, there’s maybe a two-week check-in, but typically it’s the six weeks. and then that’s it. And so it sounds like you, because of your specialty, you get to see these parents multiple times throughout several months so that you can really feel confident that they’re set up for
You’re correct. So yeah, in our culture, there’s those six week postpartum check for mom and then that’s it. And so [00:13:00] I get to be mom’s cheerleader for a longer period of time, you know, until baby’s 18 years. And really get to know the families and have that continuity of care.
Cynthia: And because I, I’m just also fascinated with how New Kingdom has, as you said, this grassroots effort to bring holistic care in a clinic setting.
And we talked about two before in our pre-conversation that. New Kingdom takes insurance in a similar way that a typical clinic would as well then
Katie: we do, yep. So we have insurance contracts with commercial insurance companies and the co-op insurance. And then we also have, you know, of course, cash pay population too.
And so that allows more access to the clinic.
So it’s, You know, it’s like you, you feel like you’re going to a clinic, like your regular health partners Allina Clinic. But what’s different is
how we treat what’s going on. So for example, an [00:14:00] ear infection. Typically according to the American Academy at F Pediatrics it’s routine to use antibiotics. And we would use antibiotics too. And we do, and that’s routine for us as well. We also look at the body more holistically.
So what else can we optimize with this child? Can we optimize their nutrition and really help them to be eating their colors so they’re not mucus forming? And you know, a lot of this is related to, of course, like an illness, but what else can we do to help the child through the illness in other, Along with the antibiotics and how can we sustain their health so they don’t get reoccurring ear infections.
Cynthia: There’s that holistic piece, right? That it’s not just one answer, but how can we compliment this? How can we integrate so that, This patient is set up long-term, not just right here, here’s a Band-Aid solution. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. And so I know you also have [00:15:00] your own practice as well, waning Moon Wellness, which I’m a big fan of the name.
So what is different about your personal practice and what would you like people to know about what you offer
Katie: there? So Waning Moon is my own practice to help patients that wanna go deeper in their health, that wanna do regenerative work and that are really looking to detoxify and cleanse their body and get to the root cause of whatever their symptoms are, or the dise in their body.
And so waning Moon comes from the lunar cycle of detoxifying, of cleansing, of surrendering, decluttering, what no longer serves. And so I wanted to have this practice where I would hold space for families that really wanted to go deep on their holistic journey and have this authentic experience with them to help them identify we are this disease or this stagnated flow is in their body.
And so it’s just my way of working with families to really [00:16:00] optimize their children and themselves and it’s very individualized.
Cynthia: And for those who don’t know, cuz I feel like I’ve been hearing this word a lot lately, but I know I run in this very specific circle, but can you share a little more about what regenerative health.
Katie: So regenerative health is when you identify a tissue or an organ that has some weaknesses and you literally use herbs and mindsets and an alkaline diet and this really rich, colorful nutrition to repair that tissue or organ or gland. And so it’s this opportunity that we have to be self healer.
And it allows us to be self healers and it allows us to empower ourselves. And so my goal is to educate and empower families to almost be their own healer, be their own doctor, and really [00:17:00] understand their body and tap into that innate intelligence that we all have. There’s so many tools that we can use to do that, and it’s, it’s not that difficult.
Cynthia: Well, Once you, once you learn it, then
Katie: work works. But it’s work.
Cynthia: Yes. Well, and I’d imagine it’s a really valuable investment for families to be able to learn what it takes to self-heal, to figure out their bodies, to know through education and intuition what the next best step is so that they don’t have to.
Their whole family over to the clinic and to the practitioner, and it’s can be really hard, especially with young kids coordinating schedules, pulling them outta school. And so if you can just do that from your own home with lifestyle changes, with mindset, work with herbs, tinctures, I mean, I’d imagine that’s well worth the time investment to learn what, what is [00:18:00] needed.
Katie: in this generation, this awakening, this post covid awakening, people are looking to one, they’re looking for alternate health. They’re really looking, what does health mean to me and how do I maintain and protect my health? What are the pieces to the puzzle? Cause there’s more than one or two pieces.
And, and so they’re looking for those additional pieces to really protect themselves. But there’s also this awakening that I feel like I’m seeing where. Families are wanting to break the, the genetic side of what they’ve inherited. And so, you know, really looking at like the epigenetics.
How can we change the expression of ourselves for ourselves and for our children? Hmm. What can we do to protect ourselves from chronic disease, in the body? And. You know, they are empowered that they can do the work to invest in themselves. .
Cynthia: And for those who don’t know what epigenetics is, it is a relatively new field compared to other sciences.
But we can actually inherit genes that are turned on or off, right? We’ve got these alleles. And when we have it on or off, that specific gene, at the time. Is it at the time of conception
Katie: well, we can, we can express them on and off through our life.
So, but it kind
Cynthia: of allows for a, a good starting point, right? If the parents have their genes, [00:21:00] In a really good place, right? They’re making these epigenetic changes and then they could pass that on to the next generation. It just creates. A much more solid foundation from which that child can start to evolve, develop, grow.
And they might make choices in their life that turn on or off those genes again. But it gives them this headstart in a sense. Mm-hmm. .
Katie: And I think that really empowers people to know that, cuz sometimes we get these messages. Oh, you know, my dad was like that. And you know, I’m just inheriting this from, you know, my mom and grandma and, you know, and there’s really this empowerment that you are in control.
Mm-hmm. and, you know, , the, the saying of, genetics loads the gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger. I don’t use that example with my peds. I say, you know, your is is a cookbook and there’s so many recipes, but we don’t have to make all the recipes. We don’t have to make the recipes that we, we don’t wanna make.
And [00:22:00] so we can make healthy choices and decide how we’re going to live our lifestyle, how we’re gonna live our life. And kids understand. Yeah,
Cynthia: what a beautiful way to describe genetics. I’ve tried describing genetics to my nieces because they asked, I think they said something and my answer was, oh, it’s because of genetics.
And they’re like, what’s that? I’m like, how, how do I explain this to children? So I’m totally stealing that. I love that idea, but it’s, it’s a cook. Full of all these ingredients and recipes that have been passed down to us. But gosh, that empowering piece of recognizing you can choose what you want to cook.
Katie: Yeah, exactly. Hmm
Cynthia: hmm. I’m walking away with that one, that’s for sure.
You also in your own practice, do clinical radiology. Can [00:23:00] you share a little more about that? Cuz it is fascinating and I know it’s also one of those emerging
Katie: sciences mm-hmm. , well, the, the Egyptians did ideology. Oh they did?
That’s amazing. Excited in the Bible. , but yeah, I think for our culture it’s newer. So I Radiology is the study and it’s the observation of nerve endings in the eyes. So there’s 28,000 nerve endings in the eye.
And so when you observe the iris, you can actually pinpoint organ and gland weaknesses in the eyes and help to identify genetic weaknesses. And then you could also look at. Current. So you can look at like lymphatic stagnation. You can actually see scars where they are in the body. And that’s actually how it was started was surgeons were observing where the eyes were changing before and after surgery.
It’s kinda the, some of the origins in the US and so, that’s another empowering tool for parents to see that picture. Literal picture [00:24:00] with the markings of areas to optimize that.
Cynthia: Wild. So by looking at the eye, it’s almost a map of the nervous system of the body. And based on what you’re seeing, you’ve been trained to know what might need more attention,
Katie: yeah. And you can’t diagnose, you can’t treat off of it. It’s just observational and of course, you’re comparing that to. The health assessment of the patient as well. Mm, mm-hmm. .
Cynthia: Very cool. So you have clinical I radiology and you’ve got the regenerative detox.
And then I did read that you do muscle testing. Can you share a little bit more
Katie: about that? Yes. So I do something called autonomic response testing, and so autonomic response testing. It’s actually almost like the next layer of muscle testing. And so what it is, is you’re using muscle testing, but you’re measuring the a n s.
So [00:25:00] the a n s is the autonomic nervous system, and that’s the part that we can’t control. So what it’s looking at is root cause systems. Disease blockages, but when you muscle test, you can get the priorities in your body. And so that really helps to determine where to start with patients. And so, I start with muscle testing and after the muscle testing, I use a polarizing filter. And what I do is actually look at the light being emitted from. Our organs and our tissues and skin, and you can look at anything.
And so the filter actually tells me how the light is being emitted. And so I learned this from a physician in Germany who teaches on photon physics, the study of light and how were all these light beings. And so by using this filter, I can identify parts in the body where the flow is stagnated and where it’s off.
Just through muscle testing and through this filter. And it’s incredible because the body [00:26:00] doesn’t lie. You can really identify deep stagnations. I love it.
Cynthia: I have not heard of this before and I’m. Obsessed. So I do understand physics, I know light is waves and energy and that’s what we’re composed of, right?
Like we have constantly these frequencies radiating off of us. And so to be able to have some way to visually measure that I’d imagine is very helpful in understanding what a client might need from you.
Katie: Yes. And they can feel it and they can see. . And it’s so empowering and it also helps ’em to identify the emotional blockages, right?
So it’s the physical, but it’s also the emotional, because that’s at the root cause, it’s all of our bodies, right? Our spiritual body, our mental body, and our physical. Hmm.
Cynthia: Yeah. And the more you know [00:27:00] about just mind, body, spirit connection, it makes total sense, right? If you’re emotionally stagnant somewhere, your body gets tense, as you said, your autonomic nervous system isn’t functioning the way it should optimally.
And so we start having these issues with organ systems. I know you also utilize herbs and flower essence amidst all of these really cool diagnostic tools. So how do the herbs and flower essence play in?
Katie: So that’s my treatment. And that’s how I support the body. So the herbs are used to regenerate to either nourish and or detox.
whatever comes up in the testing. And then the flower essence I use for the emotional component. So I’ll give patients like a meditation and some reflective points based on what comes up. And so they can use the flower essence to move through those. And then the herbs are used as the earth medicine to move out whatever doesn’t serve them to [00:28:00] detox.
The metals or the BPA or the pesticides and you know, whatever the environmental that comes up or whatever the toxin.
Cynthia: When someone, let’s say, comes to see you in your private practice, what would that. Intake process look like? Is it all of the diagnostic tools right off the bat, or are you picking and choosing?
Katie: I typically will start with muscle testing first. First I ta start with like an intake. What are their goals? What are they looking for? What’s their journey? Where have they been so I can start to meet them where they’re at and really understand. What’s this team gonna look like? And then after we’ve established where they’re coming from, then I’ll do the muscle testing and really get to know, what their body wants to do, what their body’s priorities are, because that sometimes it’s different.
And then we’ll develop a protocol that is going to optimize and.
Cynthia: And in your private practice, you [00:29:00] work with families as well, so you’ll work with children too? Yes. Yeah, that’s perfect. So what are some reasons that a client might wanna reach out to you specifically via waning moon wellness? What kind of clients are coming to you in this setting?
Katie: So clients are calling with concerns of let’s say their child seems to always be sick, and so they really wanna get to the root cause of, is this a lymphatic drainage?
Stagnation that needs to be supported. Is this accumulation of environmental toxins that they want to help get cleared. Is this something emotional, or it’s the child that has these constant belly aches and they’ve run the test, they’ve done the imaging. And there’s just, there’s no cause for these belly aches.
And it’s, okay, how can we look at the gut microbiome? How can we look at the gut as the emotional center? What can we treat and how can we support this child? What nutritional support can be [00:30:00] given? And so it’s really putting the pieces together of Western care and, and what’s, you know, offered there, but also filling in the gaps because there are things.
we just can’t address in the. .
Cynthia: And this is why I love the integrative approach. It means Western isn’t better, Eastern isn’t better, it’s that they’re different. And right now in our society, Western medicine is what is. Considered validated. It’s considered what’s insurable. And so when people can’t get out of the clinic setting and out of their insurance, the kind of diagnostic tools, the healing modalities that they truly need, because like we said, each individual is so unique and their healing journey is so unique.
You know, there’s only this cut of the pie, right? And only some people are gonna fit in there. And it’s so nice to have that option of going to this other wedge of the [00:31:00] pie and realizing, oh, okay, there’s ways that we can measure the photons emitting from my body. And it’s actually an energy stagnation.
It’s not something an M R I would ever catch. So to be able to have this variety and, you know, fingers crossed praying all the time about this, but I hope one day someday insurance companies can cover the full range, right? And that everything could be seen as a viable option.
They’re. It’s evidence-based, it’s historically successful, which is why it’s still here today. If the Egyptians did it and now we’re doing it today, there must be something there. .
Katie: Yeah. It’s, it’s powerful work and people have really good results with it. Yeah. You know, it works. Yeah,
Cynthia: I’d love to hear too just considering that sometimes.
The limitations of Western care because of insurance coverage and because of all [00:32:00] these assumptions, unfortunately because there is that limitation I find that a lot of people end up turning to alternative methods, holistic integrative care, because. You know, they just couldn’t get the care they needed.
I wonder if you have a success story to share even about a client who maybe felt a little hopeless or a little lost, but you were able to guide them with these different healing modalities to success.
Katie: Yeah. I actually got into this because of my husband.
He was actually injured by a pharmaceutical. And it was an unknowing exposure, but and so that’s where this journey really took me last year because unfortunately there was nothing that Western medicine could do and they kind of threw their arms up and said, this is just kind of how it is and this is the journey.
And, you know, and so this is where my soul work really started last year, was digging deeper and trying to [00:33:00] help my husband. And he’s doing great. So, but he’s, he was kind of my Guinea pig with some of this new knowledge that I was acquiring. And, and through this we had to unlearn as we learned because we had to evolve and it really turned into more soul work.
And so that’s kind of the origins of a lot of.
Cynthia: So what would you say to someone who’s like, cool, I wanna work with Katie. What would you say about choosing to work with you in New Kingdom versus choosing to work with you in your private practice?
Katie: So New Kingdom is your perfect clinic for, your well visits , getting your sick care, anything that comes up with your child or yourself getting your labs done, getting the orders for imaging getting referrals.
It’s the perfect setting. You’re gonna be loved, you’re gonna be taken care of, you’re gonna receive that authentic care from a Western trained provider, but somebody who’s integrative and open [00:34:00] and judgment free. My practice is different where it’s cash base and it’s offering services that the insurance companies aren’t ready to cover.
The future of healthcare is to really help patients get deeper in their health. And so this is gonna be different where there’s not the lab work and the insurance coverage, but this is something that,
it’s just deep work. We don’t treat symptoms, we treat the body. Hmm. Yeah.
Cynthia: Yeah. It sounds like it’s almost like basic needs new kingdom, And then like you said, you wanna go deeper. Let’s go down that rabbit hole. Come join me, .
Katie: We’ll find all of the things that need supporting
Cynthia: I love it and I’m so glad that you’re available in these two different formats. Right. Something that might feel more familiar and accessible to people who know the Western healthcare system. [00:35:00] And then also having your private practice so that people who are ready to explore, ready to do something different or maybe they’re well on their journey and they know this works.
Right. And that you can be that care provider for them.
Cynthia: Yeah, it’s so great that you have one foot in each realm in a sense. Cuz , gosh, wouldn’t it be nice if you know, yeah, sure. Western Healthcare, that can be the first avenue, but then if nothing’s working for the patient, can we pass the baton?
Can we, can we try something else and cover that? Because obviously
Katie: This option isn’t working. , we can work together. Yes. Yeah. It can be a team approach. Yeah. Gosh,
Cynthia: gosh. Well, if we can’t have it on a system-wide basis, at least people can get it from you directly, which is such a gift, and I’m so grateful we were able to talk today and learn about [00:36:00] how you’re supporting your
Katie, thank you for having me. I’m grateful for this opportunity.